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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
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Posted - 2014.08.20 11:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the take will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located and we will never see that. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
29
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Posted - 2014.08.20 11:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that. Doesn't even need to be a third seller Somer could had put up a shop by him self for selling GTC's, advertising it as someone else's company and raked in the cash and none the wiser.
Indeed; that would be the most profitable method. Creating your own affiliate company and pocketing 100% of the sales. Also better for ensuring that there are less people who could expose the actual RMT intent of the two companies relationship. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
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Posted - 2014.08.20 11:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
111010110 wrote:
CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games.
In a nutshell this is exactly what happened. Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
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Posted - 2014.08.20 11:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:111010110 wrote:
CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games.
In a nutshell this is exactly what happened. Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. Hardly. Besides, there is such a thing as intent. In that regard Somer has left quite a trail. Markee however is a different beast alltogether. Let's be honest though, when CCP declared war on RMT, there were plenty things that were grey during those days. Turns out it never pays to enable those who make a living out of gaming you for legitimisation. It's a harsh lesson for CCP.
Indeed. My initial questions after reading the proposal was, what are they going to use this potentially unlimited supply of plex for and why are they willing to pay an unspecified amount over market to ensure they receive them. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
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Posted - 2014.08.20 11:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:Finding enough evidence to get a conviction for it will be next to impossible though. This isn't a criminal trial. You don't have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt here.
There needs to be some minimum evidence standard or players will have the impression there is no due process involved in permanently banning their account. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
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Posted - 2014.08.20 12:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Loki O'Grady wrote:Cryo Kool wrote:
Indeed. My initial questions after reading the proposal was, what are they going to use this potentially unlimited supply of plex for and why are they willing to pay an unspecified amount over market to ensure they receive them.
The way plex prices are going up and up, all he'd need to do is sit on them for a few weeks before selling them for more than he paid.
I doubt generating more isk was his primary concern; the gambling alone generated more than he could spend. Converting it to real money would be the only motivation I could think of. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
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Posted - 2014.08.20 12:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I'd think you'd expect some modicum of respect if your accounts were under investigation for, say, stumbling on an exploit. Just saying, there has to be some standard applied to the way bans are handed out. Sure, and I'm not saying CCP should ban people willy-nilly, or just because there's angry people posting on the forums. But nothing requires CCP to have an air-tight case. If they decide that it's more likely that Somer intentionally tried to deceive them, that's a perfectly fine reason to take action.
Maybe my wording distracted from my intent. I was implying that CCP will have trouble finding enough evidence to warrant a ban as all the relevant info regarding this being RMT is between SOMER and the GTC affiliate. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
30
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Posted - 2014.08.20 12:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c While I can't speak for CCP, the CSM has no desire to see the ball dropped on this either. More information will be forthcoming, no doubt after we have another string of meetings, and suffice it to say that I'm broadly positive as to how this matter is being handled on CCP's end. They're giving this a lot of thought, looking at it from all the angles, and are making a good faith effort to do right by the community. In a situation this large and complicated, that will take some time. So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars?
Excellent question. +1 |
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